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flagrante delicto's avatar

Without African Americans, (think Jazz, Blues, and R&R Little Richard IS the King), what music would we be listening to? The Mormon Tabernacle Choir? The Mitch Miller Singers? The Kingston Trio (not them... they had a banjo which is an African instrument)?

I shudder at the thought.

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

I think a fairly sound argument could be made that what we call hard rock and heavy metal might have developed instead; there are unmistakable roots in classical music there... and in prog too. Beyond that, I couldn't hazard a guess as to its name or sound.

Anyone else down to listen to the 2013 RRHOF Inductee super jam? Can't think of a better example of what we're talking 'bout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygSWlsOYUig

RIP Chris Cornell

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flagrante delicto's avatar

Think what music was en vogue before Jazz or before Blues, or R&R, that was performed soley by white folk.

Check out the Carter Family. I don't know how you wring King Crimson out of that. But give it your best shot.

"Keep on the Sunny Side" lalala

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=UrI_ZAkgHBI&si=I1Zspqv3tvzgfdJW

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

We can create whatever stories we want to get to our preferred endpoint, and I see very little value in that. I think you're right about American music history; and now is also the time for me to admit that I don't like country music and so know nothing about its history.

The little I know of European folk music is what seeped into classical music from it (Grieg, Chopin, Dvořák, et al.), so I can't really comment intelligently there either.

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flagrante delicto's avatar

Teleology is fun. Love your Classical references.

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flagrante delicto's avatar

Great Jam. Love Ann Wilson, but not here.

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

She wasn't given much of an opportunity to shine. Still in fine voice though.

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Fort Tuna's avatar

Nah. It's all based on Rock and Roll. Hard Rock and Metal are both Rock. It may be classical influenced Rock, but it's still Rock and Roll. And that's a pure (African) American creation.

Rock and Roll itself has classical roots as the originators of Jazz and the Blues were classically trained. In fact, that was the genesis of it. Dudes in Louisiana, creoles, especially the Black dudes with white fathers, who were sent to France to be educated. They returned to New Orleans and the Latin South and that music and the Delta music melded. You got Boogie Woogie and Stride Piano,Jazz, Blues and all of that.

But the classical roots melded with the African beats, polyrhythms, syncopation and then the gospel IS what Rock and Roll is.

Almost all American music IS Black Music. Jazz, showtunes, rock and all its variants. Hip hop. Salsa. Reggaeton. even K-Pop. MOST modern music around the world is based on African American Rock and Roll. It's the Lingua Franca of popular music.

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flagrante delicto's avatar

YESSSS! Sitting outside of a bistro overseas. I saw a 20 year old waitress mouthing English words to White Rabbit. We Rock.

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flagrante delicto's avatar

Ole Timey music or Appalachian music has other roots. It's an acquired taste. Whiskey music... imho

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Fort Tuna's avatar

Appalachian music def had its own roots. AND it's also part of Rock and Roll and Soul, as Appalachia and the South and African Americans are not mutually exclusive. Lots of overlap. You have different varieties of Rock and Blues and Gospel and Hymns. All pretty fascinating. I'll write about it once I hit the lottery and have all day to just putter about and read things.

https://johnsoncityslim.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/the-appalachian-roots-of-rock/

Ohio Reference in the above article BTW

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3593209

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flagrante delicto's avatar

I'm not with you on this one. This music may root the British Isles. I have this album.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=XCX2L_Bsz6w&si=DV-Oo8rGxuZgspqF

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

Oh, now you've done it. Just the first bit of the first song has brought up a burst of Celtic music I've not listened to for a very long while. You may be getting the credit/blame for some future features here, B.

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Fort Tuna's avatar

I said it has its OWN roots. And that its also part of the foundation of Rock and Roll, not that it is a derivative.

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

Yeah, my paternal ancestors go way back in southwestern Ohio; my grandfather had a fondness for that music. Other than maybe one or two songs that I can't recall, I dislike it more than country. I attribute my dislike mostly to the twanginess, both in voice and guitar.

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Fort Tuna's avatar

I like the twang.

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

I like some twang (Les Claypool, anyone?), but when paired with either of those genres, it's just too much for me. You're welcome to my portion!

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Jackie Ralston's avatar

Yes: almost all American music today is deeply rooted in Black music. My intention was just to speculate how rock and metal—and I overstated the case by including rock—might still exist today yet sound different if it came more directly from Western classical music. It was an idle thought.

I am not the person to try to make, much less advance, that argument. Hell, I'm not even interested in defending it. I love too much of American music to wish it away or to have been otherwise.

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Fort Tuna's avatar

You can hear the church in this for sure.

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Al Bellenchia's avatar

Perfection to these ears. Elvis has left.....me wanting, as usual.

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